CANINE BEHAVIOR QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS By Kathy Diamond Davis Author and Trainer

Related Articles Same Sex Dogs in the Home

Q: We have two 8-month old male Westies who, up until the past few days, got along really well, demonstrating no aggression towards one another other than some rough playing. One has been the more dominant of the two since we first got them at age 8 weeks, though the other only subtlely exhibits submissive behavior. They sleep together in the same crate, where they also stay when no one is home. In the past 2 days their behavior towards each other has changed dramatically. They've developed possessiveness (over food or chew toys) and frequently get into very violent shows of aggression (with lots of growling, and gnashing of teeth, though no actual biting or injury has occurred). These displays usually begin with a moment of intense staring, followed by the "fight." The "submissive" one seems to becoming more bold, challenging the other’s position as the alpha --at least that what seem to be happening to us novices. They are scheduled to be neutered next week.

My questions: [1] I know neutering does not solve this problem in all dogs, but are we likely to see an immediate improvement? Is neutering more effective if done before the aggressive tendencies start? (i.e., did we wait too long to do it?) [2] What is the proper way for us to react the these violent outbursts? We've let them run their course and they last only about 5 to 10 seconds and then they'll suddenly stop and act normal. Scolding them (no hitting!) has no effect -- once they've "locked into" each other, there is no way we seem to be able to intervene. The two of them have been a wonderful pair and seem to enjoy each other's company, especially since they are alone during most of the day. Admittedly it is preferable to pair and male and female. Are we seeing a taste of the new, permanent status quo, or can two neutered male dogs happily co-exist? Thanks!

A: It's not good that these two dogs have been together constantly. Crated in the same crate, oops, that's not good, either. They need separate crates. That should have been done when they were puppies.

Now you have two dogs who are bonded to each other possibly to an almost dangerous degree, plus, being terriers, and both being male, this fighting was nearly inevitable. It makes no difference that they got along well as puppies. That would be expected. They are becoming dogs now, a process you can't change. This fighting was totally predictable.

Neutering should certainly done, might have been more beneficial if done by the age of 6 months, but no, it's not likely to solve this problem. Testosterone is only part of it. Same-sex female dogs tend to fight, too--again, especially in terriers. If neutering is going to make a difference, no, it would not likely be immediate. It takes months for the testosterone levels to be reduced.

Terriers don't just fight for the same reasons other dogs do, although they do fight for those reasons, too. But terriers have been bred for "gameness." This trait was originally bred for, in order to help farmers clear their land of pests that interfered with farming.

Terriers were tenacious in going after and killing these animals. They still are. In the instinctive state of expressing this trait, the dog is so focused, it doesn't feel much pain. That is a dangerous thing when dogs fight, because they will take more injury than they might otherwise, without quitting. To the death, at times.

The trait of gameness has also been bred for by people, over hundreds of years, perhaps longer, who wanted to pit two dogs against each other and wager on which would win. Today this activity is illegal, but it still thrives.

In the show ring, judges often "spar" terriers. This is not a fight, rather it's more like a face-off, to see the dogs show a spark. It is an indication that breeders today do still breed for gameness. Another indication of this fact is the popularity of earth trials for terriers, events in which dogs like your West Highland White Terriers are allowed to go into a hole in the earth and show desire to go after something such as rats protected by a cage.

So, what you are dealing with is more than a similar problem that would likely arise if you raised two male dogs together who were not of a breed high in aggression toward same-sex other dogs. I can't give you odds, but I would bet these two dogs are not going to be able to live safely together indefinitely. If you want to keep them both, you need to start instituting some separations between them now.

As you say, it's unfortunate that your dogs are not opposite sex. If that were the case, the chances would be very good that they would get along just fine, for life.

Update: Q: Thank you for the (somber) advice. We've done some more reading and have found that, in part, at least temporarily, the situation is improved when we are very careful to acknowledge the hierarchy of the alpha dog and take care not to inadvertently challenge his status by giving any deferential treatment to the other dog. While I'm not ready to abandon ship quite yet, given their upbringing thus far, what would the expected effect be of removing one dog (while he is still easily adoptable as a young dog) and introducing a new female (we like having two dogs…)? Thanks again.

A: When you separate two dogs who have been raised so tightly together, it can take them awhile to adjust, but they do adjust. It can help if the dog spends some time without another dog as companion, if during that time you can work with the dog every day and improve his bond to humans.

Both dogs usually do quite well, and in fact, they usually do better than if they had been kept together, in multiple ways. When you keep two same-sex dogs together, their temperaments are pushed to extremes. The dominant one becomes excessively dominant, and the submissive one becomes rather oppressed by the constant pressure to submit.

When you separate them, the dominant dog may settle down some, and the submissive one may blossom. At least they'll stop getting continuously worse, which is a typical outcome when they stay together.

Generally opposite-sex dogs get along fine, when both are spayed/neutered. In that scenario, he is alpha male in their little pack, and she is alpha female. They may still skirmish, but will not normally hurt each other. The male being first in the home should make it go even more smoothly. Do be sure to use separate crates, though.

Breeders and others who successfully maintain homes with dogs who are not compatible to live together in a pack do so by keeping them apart, either all the time, or part of the time. You'll hear them talk about which dogs they can "run" together, often meaning those are the dogs they put together for exercise at scheduled times each day.

Most of us in our homes with our companion dogs don't want to have to live with separations. Since dogs are so much the victims of their instincts, we can't just talk them out of fighting with each other, as I'm told people are able to do with some degree of success with their human kids!

If you do place one of the dogs, be sure to give the breeder a chance to help. A responsible breeder would take the dog back, in fact. If there is no breeder to do that, the national rescue group for the West Highland White Terrier Club of America, located at: http://www.westieclubamerica.com/ may be able to help you place him. It really helps to have a knowledgeable person in the breed involved in placement, and they will then stand behind the dog if it ever again needs a new home.

I know this is a traumatic situation for both the people and the dogs in the family. I hope it works out for the best.

Update 2:Q: Thanks again for your thoughtful advice. I am a huge dog fan and adore them as companions (no cats for me!). But I do understand that as much as we like to anthropomorphize their behavior, they are, as you say, creatures of instinct -- it just so happens that the behaviors they do demonstrate lend themselves to easy "human" interpretations. I have become quite demoralized by this information/revelation about these two adorable dogs I've come to love these past seven months. Let me pick your brain with a few final questions, then I'll leave your poor inbox alone! With the understanding that a few e-mail descriptions cant possibly tell the whole story, based on the information I've given you, is it premature to make the decision to separate them? In other words, is their any "hope" is waiting to see what happens after the neutering, or is the likelihood of this ending in a livable dominant-submissive pairing so remote that such a wait-and-see attitude merely wishful thinking?

Finally, any advice as to which dog would be the best 1 to keep? The dominant one appears to have bonded better with us humans, the submissive one is more aloof and is smarter, though he tends to be the one that gets into trouble. The submissive dog, though somewhat aloof, is -- for the lack of a better word -- sweet. Or at this point is it merely a question of personal preference? Thank you again for your thoughtful advice.

A: Very thoughtful questions you asked. Well, no one can predict the future, as you say, but besides the rather dismal future for the submissive dog in this situation, even if the dogs reached a truce for a few years, war could break out later. It would probably always be an unstable situation, to some extent. If you ever got another dog, or even brought in a visiting dog for some reason, that could set them off, too.

However, there is always hope, as some dogs do manage to live like this. I think there can be some hidden prices they pay, that their owners never fully realize. Just like us, dogs suffer more medical problems when they live in stressful situations. As a result, you might see more skin and metabolic problems. And of course if a fight leads to injury, there can be infection, disability. So how well they could be reasonably expected to do is something of a relative thing.

It sounds like you feel more of a bond to the dominant dog. Since it is generally the submissive partner who suffers most in this situation, he is the dog who gains the most by leaving. He is also often the one who makes the sweetest and easiest pet for someone else. So that is probably the answer that would fit best for you, for the dogs, and for the new owner.

I can imagine how torn you must be over this. Another reason to consider separating the dogs sooner rather than later is that fighting can become a habit and a personality style. Then it's harder for both of them to go on and do well after the separation, because they may continue to have an inclination to fight with other dogs.

I believe dogs are capable of many human feelings, especially our more noble emotions, such as love. But it's simply not fair to hold them responsible for their actions in the same manner humans are responsible, because dogs do not have as much capacity for controlling their impulses as humans have.

Training helps develop a dog's higher thinking capacity, but it has limits. And terriers weren't bred for the intricate training required for working side-by-side with a human to achieve a task such as retrieving to the hunter or herding livestock.

No matter how well-trained any dog, dog social structure is different from human social structure, and is hard-wired into the dog's brain. Add to that the tinkering done by human breeders with dog instincts in order to develop "gameness" in terriers, and it get complicated. None of it is the fault of the dog.

I worry a lot about running into this same situation myself, since I like to keep three dogs, and since there are only two sexes, that means two of the same sex. I refuse to make that two males, because I think the little pack runs more smoothly with only one male, and all the dogs are happier.

But as many experienced dog people will tell you, keeping two females together is no cakewalk, either. Takes just the right girls, handled just the right way. One thing that helps is to put at least 2 years between adding new pack members. If that time is spent with the humans training and bonding with a new dog before adding another new dog, the end result is that the person has a lot more control of the pack. Still no guarantees, though.

Whether or not you place one of these boys, taking them separately to obedience class could help their futures. If you place one of them, I would recommend taking the other one through some obedience class training before you get a female dog. Then take her through it. Makes life easier!

Date Published: 9/12/2002 12:57:00 PM

    

Kathy Diamond Davis is the author of the book Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others. Should the training articles available here or elsewhere not be effective, contact your veterinarian. Veterinarians not specializing in behavior can eliminate medical causes of behavior problems. If no medical cause is found, your veterinarian can refer you to a colleague who specializes in behavior or a local behaviorist.